http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=17365&site=3&page=1
The original post, let's get back to it. You guys let the 'dub hijack the thread instead of ignoring her idiocy.
Rex
Rex B13
JoinedPosts by Rex B13
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28
Witnesses kicked out of town
by chester incheck this story out.
i have not seen it posted anywhere yet.. .. http://www.clevescene.com/issues/2001-12-06/news2.html/1/index.html
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Rex B13
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How "free" is free will?
by Mr Ben in(slightly paraphrased from genesis).
1. you have the freedom to use your life to obey me or disobey me.. 2. but if you choose the latter, i will take away your life (and therefore the ability to choose).. how free is biblical free will really?.
religion n.. an organisation designed to promote atheism.
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Rex B13
>I've thought about this a lot. It's always been my assertion that if I hold a gun up to your head and tell you that if you raise your right hand I will blow your head off, you are not exercising your free will if you refrain from raising your right hand. What if you're a parent? When you tell your children to stay out of the cookie jar (we'll call it the "tree of life") and they disobey you (as did Adam and Eve) - do you head for your closet to get your trusty .45 out and execute them for it?
You are talking about equal beings. You cannot apply this analogy to 'created' and 'creator', since the former is dependent on the latter for existence.
What we have in the creation account is rebellion, and the perps are warned in advance. Satan makes his move (which is allowed by God, since He is sovereign and determines how far Satan can go, see the book of Job), Eve is fooled by Satan's trickery and Adam later decides that Eve is more important than God, so he partakes.
We are talking about perfect, created beings who all have the freedom to choose their course of action. They set the game in motion and chose rebellion rather than loving God enough to be obedient.
>Besides this, I've always had a problem with how the WTBTS portrays the Genesis story. They say that Jesus' reference to Satan as the 'father of the lie' is borne out in Genesis 3. I say it's nothing of the sort, and that it couldn't be more plain if you actually just READ the story. Satan basically claimed the fruit was magic and that it would impart real, actual knowledge to Adam and Eve.
No. It was their disobedience and the separation (from God) is what "opened their eyes". Satan claimed that Adam and Eve would become "like God" and that was the lie, for he knew that the couple would not be able to commune directly with God due to His own holiness and righteousness.>It's obvious that he was right:
"Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they realized they were naked; so they sewed fig leaves together and made coverings for themselves." (Genesis 3:7 NIV)Wrong, see above.
>Also, it seems to me that Satan didn't actually say that Adam and Eve wouldn't die, he simply said that eating the fruit would not kill them in and of itself. Although the NWT renders Genesis 3:4 as "you positively will not die," most render the scripture as "you will not surely die," implying that Satan knew that even after they ate of the fruit, they would still be alive and that they could still live forever. And what do you know? God Himself acknowledges both of these things as being facts a few short verses later: "And the LORD God said, "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever." (Genesis 3:22) So to recoup, Satan told Adam and Eve that eating of the fruit would not necessarily kill them, but would give them a magical knowledge of morality.
They already knew 'good' and it was only the evil that was learned when they rebelled against God. Here is where you make your mistake. You assume that God mean't a physical death. This is probably due to the JW heresy that denies the immortal soul. This is one of the first contradictions that JWs let themselves in for in their obstinate reasoning. Yes, the "tree of life" could have maintained their physical bodies as long as it lived. However, they were now gradually losing their mental balance to depravity. God has kept mankind from the tree until perfection could be restored and we see it returns to the "new earth" of Revelation 21>Where's the lie? It seems to me that Satan had it 100% correct, and that he knew that God was engaging in an advanced sort of tomfoolery with these two. I don't take the Genesis account seriously, but if I did, I would have to say that Satan seems to me to be the one that's coming off as the one being more honest and straightforward. Am I wrong?
Totally. God has full knowledge of all events in the stream of time or He would not be God, since He would suffer the restriction of time. He lives outside of this concept and has only rarely used a theophany to appear on earth or in the form of a man, Christ Jesus.
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ex-JW Christians Suck!
by mikepence inthere, i said it.. how can you leave one brainwashing controlling world view and dive right into another?!.
duh!!!.
see http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=17131&site=3 for a great example of why they suck.. aaaaaarrrrrrgggghhhh!.
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Rex B13
Hi Sean,
Don't whine to me about, 'mind control tactics' being present in other churches than JW. Exhortation and teaching are a heck of a lot different than the hypnotic and repetitious tactics that the 'dubs use all of the time. There is absolutely no comparison. It appears taht you still suffer from the ingrained slander that your (former?) masters blathered about REAL CHRISTIANITY.
Have a nice evening!
Rex -
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JW sense of Bro-hood.....*sigh wistfully*
by ashitaka inmy sister's future in-laws are threatening that no one will come to their wedding if they don't have it in the kingdom hall.. (we're the reason they can't have it in the hall.
the soon-to-be newlyweds want us to be in the wedding, plus we're shelling out some major cash for it.).
don't you just love the jw sense of brotherhood?
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Rex B13
Ashi,
You are absolutely fabulous. Don't give an inch to those twerps until they begin to act like human beings and not cultists.
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Can Anyone Actually Live By JW Rules/Suggestions?
by Skeptic ini seriously doubt that anyone could actually live strictly by the jw rules and "suggestions" give by the society and the congregation.
like the catholic church, there are now so many rules you cannot follow them all.
unlike the catholic church, the dubs to not allow you to use your head and deviate when you want.. i remember my first wife struggling to live by dub rules.
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Rex B13
Hi Rich,
>Those two JW beliefs are contradictory. And JWs can't weasle out by saying that Jah designed the polar bear for both ways. If Jah knew the earth would get cold, then He knew that Adam would sin. That throws a whole new spin on the JW beliefs about God being all knowing, just, loving and powerful.Thanks for the clarification. They have really gotten themselves into so many contradictions, haven't they? They deny so much of what is necessary to BE GOD IN THE FIRST PLACE.
Hi Abby,
>Rex; do I misunderstand you, or are you saying you're a young Earth Creationist... ?I'm a fundy, arent't I? LOL
Here's how it goes: Once one has established the historicity of Christ and has proved that to him/herself this follows; Jesus is God-man; He took the book of Genesis literally, claiming to have fulfilled the Law; He asserts that 'every jot and tittle' is confirmed and true; Therefore it IS true, regardless of what any human or group of humans says contrary.
You can line up all of the 'evidence' and 'scholarly opinions' till eternity and it doesn't matter one bit.Now, if I can be shown that He did not actually view the events in question as literal, then I will rework my beliefs. This is also one reason that I accept the original mauscripts as inerrant and infallible. That does not mean that any one translation of scripture is inerrant. God made sure that we have enough of the picture to both surrender to His will and to have a measure of faith involved.
Do I hear an 'amen'?
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Nobody Answers
by Rex B13 inten reasons why i never wash. my mother made me wash as a child.
the soap makers only want my money.
there are so many different kinds of soap, i could never decide which one was right.
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Rex B13
ROFL, (yea I know, everyone uses that. I'm getting sick of it too.) I got a wonderful response from everyone and I particularly enjoyed Wilt and Jan's sense of humor. COMF, Derek, Alan, Seeker and the rest of you need to GET OFF OF THE STAGE. No one is applauding AND ONLY YOURSELVES LISTEN.
Cheers!
Rex -
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Witnesses kicked out of town
by chester incheck this story out.
i have not seen it posted anywhere yet.. .. http://www.clevescene.com/issues/2001-12-06/news2.html/1/index.html
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Rex B13
LOL, I know both of these guys, Fred is the Sheriff in Jefferson County and his brother is the mayor of Stratton. I helped out working some of the Stratton territory when I was a dub (my original incarnation up to about '88). After I quit being a dub, me and Fred's son, Sammy, partied a lot at his nightclub and other 'social clubs'.
All of these guys are 'real people'. The sheriff beat the feds on a gambling rap and we keep re-electing the guy. Sammy is a long-haired, Jan Hoagland type who has cool bands at his club (We once saw a Doors tribute band and these guys looked an played the parts. The lead singer has the whole deal, hairdo, leather, smoking a cigarette and grinding against the mike stand.) The mayor has a bar/restaurant and he serves the best steak in the county.
Stratton is going to win big on this one. They are not singling out anyone and it's the same as when a householder tells dubs in no uncertain ternms not to come back.
Later,
Rex -
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Nobody Answers
by Rex B13 inten reasons why i never wash. my mother made me wash as a child.
the soap makers only want my money.
there are so many different kinds of soap, i could never decide which one was right.
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Rex B13
TEN REASONS WHY I NEVER WASH
My mother made me wash as a child.
The soap makers only want my money.
There are so many different kinds of soap, I could never decide which one was right.
I used to wash, but it got boring, so I quit.
I do wash on special days like Easter and Christmas.
I work hard all week and am too tired to take a bath on the weekend.
People who wash are hypocrites. They think they are cleaner than other people.
I get along very well without washing.
Hardly any friends I have, wash.
I'm still young. When I get older and dirtier I may wash."They have all sorts of new services today.
Now they've got a dial-a-prayer service for atheists.
You call a number and nobody answers.Pity the poor atheist who feels grateful but has no one to thank.
Atheists are really on the spot; they have to sing "Hmmmmmmmmmm bless America."
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Assorted fundie christian nonsense part I
by expatbrit inhere, for your amusement, an assortment of fundie nonsense gleaned from the wonderful wide web:.
everybody jesuit now:.
did you know that the "fruit of islam" is a jesuit group; jesse jackson is a jesuit; georgetown university is a jesuit military fortress; george bush junior and senior are jesuits; the nazis were jesuits?
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Rex B13
So, tell me, Extra-brit: Do all Canadians pronounce words like 'out' as 'oot'? How many more 'red herrings' generalizations, that sweep in all fringe extremists with real Christianity do you have?
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Assorted fundie christian nonsense part I
by expatbrit inhere, for your amusement, an assortment of fundie nonsense gleaned from the wonderful wide web:.
everybody jesuit now:.
did you know that the "fruit of islam" is a jesuit group; jesse jackson is a jesuit; georgetown university is a jesuit military fortress; george bush junior and senior are jesuits; the nazis were jesuits?
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Rex B13
Extra-brit,
In thinking about the immortal soul: it seems to me as if it will have no reason to sleep or become unconcious. Think of that one; never, ever sleeping or having rest, having full knowledge that you 'blew it' and being sorry for every blasphemy you ever spake, yet being unable to do anything about it...for an eternity.
Rex